Re: Denarii (was: Celtic months)

[Padraic Brown <pbrown@nova.umuc.edu>]

On Fri, 29 Jan 1999, Andrew Smith wrote:

> In for a dinar, in for a lira; as my friend the philatelist would say.

Then deneir it is.

> 
> Point for people to consider is that I don't think that any British
> language kept denarii-solidii-librae as currency names beyond the
> productive borrowing of LSD as short hand.  

This is true enough: but then again, the various Celts simply took on (or
had thrust upon them) the English currency system, with its various
English names.  None of which was "denar" as far as I know.

> It doesn't seem to have
> survived in the Celtic languages (this statement is subject to correction
> by people who know better than me), and the English preferred their own
> names.  

To my knowledge, the English names were Celticised: punt, scilling and
pingin; if I recall the images of Irish coins right.  If not, I'm sure
correction will Swift and Terrible.  I think they now spell "pence" in
English rather than Irish; though punt has remained.  Though not for long,
since it's now the Euro!

> I suspect after the departure of the Romans the currency quietly
> collapsed.

Indeed after 435 or so, no money was used in Britain *here* for nearly 200
years. One might expect a similar collapse, or at least a great
restriction *there* as well for a time.  *Here* the Saxons reintroduced
coin in the 600s (silver pennies). *There* the Kemrese might take up the
idea anew (if the system collapsed entirely) -- with the traditional name
deneir (or rather the 7th century equivalent!) -- until LSD is later
introduced from the continent (by the French). 

As Ray put it very well, LSD and the Roman system are not identical; the
latter being a veritable hotch-potch of different things.  LSD came along
later, with Charlemagne. 

Ray seems to be of the opinion that the monetary system wouldn't entirely
disappear; and I think that's likely as well.  But in order to make the
eventual transition from what's left of the disorderly Roman system to
LSD, the system will either have to be at Death's door or extremely
fragmented.  Such a state could prompt later Princes to adopt the New and
Improved European Standard.

In response to Ray's question about other Kemrese coins, that was sorted
out a while back in the Kemrese Philately posts.  In summary the current
coins are: 1/2d, 1d, 3d, 6d, 1s, 2 1/2s, 5s, and possibly 10s, L1.  Others
that are infrequently seen in use: 1 1/2d, 2d, 4d, 18d, 3s, 6s, 10 1/2s,
21s, L3, L6 (the scudo: I think yscuth in B).

> Must go, Whose Line Is It Anyway has started.

?

Padraic.

> - andrew.