Re: Modern History and the Brzhona, etc.

[Frank George Valoczy <valoczy@vcn.bc.ca>]

On Thu, 25 Jun 1998, Padraic Brown wrote:

> On Thu, 25 Jun 1998, Frank George Valoczy wrote:
> 
> > On Wed, 24 Jun 1998, Padraic Brown wrote:
> > 
> > > On Wed, 24 Jun 1998, Frank George Valoczy wrote:
> > > 
> > > > 
> > <snip my bit>
> > > > 
> > > 
> > > This makes for an interesting turn of events -- having to contend with a
> > > USSR who _doesn't_ have to contend with the USA.  There was a protracted
> > > discussion a while back on the What-If history group regarding a no USA /
> > > USSR only scenario.  I believe the ultimate concensus was that the USSR
> > > could survive for several decades beyond the 1980s, but would eventually
> > > collapse under its own ineffeciencies.  It would probably have to contend
> > > with China (if it goes Communist *there*), though.
> > > 
> > 
> > This sounds good.  As for China, before we can say it went communist, I'd
> > have to ask: did the US have any influence over that?  What I mean is,
> > would China have gone communist if the US didn't exist?
> 

<China>

Okay.  So I guess we can say that China went communist around the same
time as *here* (1949), but under a little different circumstances.  This
would mean, with the *here* timeline, that after the Sino-Soviet rift, the
USSR's rivalry with China would be considerably greater *there* than
*here*.  But I don't think that Ivan would ignore western Europe in the
way it did with China.


 > 
> > 
> > > We probably wouldn't have a NATO per se; it would probably be something
> > > more along the lines of a Western Alliance, i.e. NATO minus the USA and
> > > Canada.
> > > 
> > 
> > That's how I figured it...sort of like the EU as a military alliance.
> 
> Right.  There _was_ and economic alliance of sorts in the 19th cen.,
> perhaps that could in some way be built upon.

Can you refresh my memory here?

> 
> > 
> > > Respecting the name Brzhona -- *here*, the Gauls were in Britany first,
> > > then Mr Caesar came and they all liked his toga so much that they became
> > > Gallo-Romans.  Then the Franks moved in and compelled everyone to cease
> > > eating cows and pigs and learn how to have cuisine with beef and porc,
> > > thus becomming French.  Somewhen in that mix, some Britons left Britain,
> > > thus ceasing to be British, but upon landing in France, refused to eat
> > > cuisine (and thus become French) and they became Brezhoneg instead.
> > > 
> > > *There*, if the Brzhona are native Gauls, then their name would probably
> > > have to change, unless they associated themselves with the immigrant
> > > Britons before moving off to the Low Countries.  Otherwise, their place of
> > > origin could change, and they would be one of the emigrant British groups
> > > fleeing the Perditious Saxon. 
> > 
> > Well, if it fits, I'd go with the second option, because I like the sound
> > of "Brzhonegh".
> 
> I thought that might be the case!  There were emmigrations from Komrow
> (Kernow in particular) during the Irish Troubles, and as a result of the
> Saxon Troubles.  The earliest migration would probably come at a time
> before the complete Romanisation of that part of the country or from the
> West (historically the least Romanised part of the country), resulting in
> a small Celtic speaking population in Britanny.  [This satisfies my desire
> (and I think Ray's desire as well) to have some surviving Brythonic Celtic
> in the wide world.] The latter migrations came some time afterward, and
> from more Romanised folk, resulting in the Breotow kingdoms in Britany. 
> The Celtic speakers, sadly, being so few in number must eventually be
> absorbed into the Romance populations (but not before leaving us some
> written testament to their existence; and therefore fodder for some
> conlinguist in Castreleon to ponder the possibilities of Cymraeg
> survival).  One of these Romance populations could very well contain the
> protoBrzhona.  From here they could part ways with their Breotow cousins
> and muddle on over to the Low Countries.
> 

Well then, the ancient history of the Brzhona has been struck by more
light.

-------ferke
Ferenc Gy. Valoczy

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