Re: CELT: Re: Flags (Re: Spoken Conlangs)

["Raymond A. Brown" <raybrown@MACLINE.CO.UK>]

At 20:37 1/4/98, Andrew Smith wrote:
[....]
>
>The following is a quote from our off-list discussion which touched on the
>issue of the crosses incorporated on the Union Jack.  As I have not asked
>the correspondent's permission to forward this I do not name him here so
>as not to violate his privacy:
>
>"Probably really only two national crosses: the red + on white background
>of
>St George for England & the white X on blue background of St Andrew for
>Scotland (neither saints having any direct connexion with either country;
>the original English patron was St Edward the Confessor.  He was ousted
>when returning crusaders brought the cult of St George, popular among
>eastern Christians, to this country).

etc.

I thought "This is well written" - then I recognized it!  It's OK Andrew, I
don't mind either the quoting or being recognized   :-)

>(I was led to believe that prior to the conquest the patron saint of the
>English was Saint Gregory the Great who was indirectly responsible for
>their Christianization - andrew.)

Maybe - Gregory is cerainly styled the Apostle of the English.  Edward was
not cannonized till 1161 so his cult is certainly post-conquest.

[Excellent posting snipped  ;-)  ]
>ancestory, going back to the standards of the Roman legions.  The red
>dragon fluttered behind the standards as they marched.  The dragon
>survived
>because the Romanized Celts, resisting the Saxon invaders, considered
>themselves _Romans_."
>
>> BTW, are leeks & daffodils significant in Kemr?
>>
>Leeks are an old symbol on the Brythonic Celts with an unknown origin,
>they are significant to the Chomro.  I understand the use of daffodils as
>a national symbol is a modern innovation.

.....helped by a linguistic coincidence -
cennin (sing. cenhinen) = leeks
cennin Pedr [Peter's leeks] (sing. cenhinen Bedr) = daffodils

>My interim judgment: leeks yes;
>daffodils maybe

What are they called in Brithenig?
-------------------------------------------
And at 13:00 2/4/98, Julian Pardoe wrote:
>In-Reply-To:
><Pine.LNX.3.95q.980401202256.3060D-100000@pandora.earthlight.co.nz>
>> The so-called cross of St Patrick, the red X on white
>> background, is not acknowledged as such by the Irish and was
>> added after the Union with Ireland in 1801.
>
>My father told me it was the coast of arms of some landed
>family -- presumably a long-established one.

I've heard this also. I don't recall the name, Fitz-something I think!

>> Although that union ceased in 1922, the cross remains.
>
>Hang on -- they just inserted the word "Northern" in 1922.

Umm - well, six counties of it.

> I
>wonder what will happen to the UK flag when Ireland is reunited.
>Of course, by then there might be no UK anyway!

Hopefully not as England, Wales & Scotland take their places in a European
Confederation  ;-)

Indeed even if Scotland & Wales remain with England, with the six counties
it'd no longer be the 'United Kindom of Great Britain & Northern Ireland'
but just plain ol' 'Great Britain' once more.  But by that time I suspect
someone will have discovered that the red saltire had been representing
Wales all the time!

>
>I can explain the thick and thin white stripes and which way is
>up is anyone's interested.

Which way up is very important - to fly the Union flag upside down is a
sign of distress!

Ray.

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Written in Net English        Humor not necessarily marked

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