[conculture] Re: Kemrese Church possibilities

[Padraic Brown <pbrown@polaris.umuc.edu>]

From: Padraic Brown <pbrown@polaris.umuc.edu>

On Sun, 25 Apr 1999, Andrew Smith wrote:

> Although a celtic saint founded Saint Gall in Switzerland, even *there* I
> think it's unlikely to remain a celtic institution.  

Too far away from home, and too close to Rome, I expect.

> Missionaries to Northern Europe might mean that Cambriese Rite churches
> might coexist beside Roman Rite churches.  In Scandanavia up until the
> Reformation, possibly into the modern period in parts of the Low
> Countries and Germany. 
> 
> I don't know if the conversion of the Vinlanders *there* would have made
> any differnce.  History *there* works on the theory that Columbus'
> discovery of the New World was still crucial. 

That makes sense -- after all, Columbus brought back knowledge of the New
World to the Europeans that counted. ;)  I.e., a burgeoning Spain ready
for new conquests.  And likely an alarmed Portugal, France, Cambria and
England who see the opportunity and can't resist sticking their grubby
fingers int the pie as well. The sagas were by no means secret and arcane
knowledge; they were probably just ignored as the ramblings of those
imaginative Vikings -- the Vikings didn't count. 

Vinland Christians of the Cambriese persuasion probably wouldn't have made
much difference. The colonies would probably remain unknown or only
vaguely defined at Glastein; since any Christianisation would be done by
Icelanders and Greenlanders.  In other words, there could be Cambriese
Christians in the New World centuries before the place is officially
discovered. The knowledge of Vinland *here* was irrelevant, as far as I've
been able to tell (the Nordics knew about it, apparently the Basques knew
about it, I've heard that other fishermen knew about it, since the
Atlantic coast was and still is a fine fishery).

Even if small colonies of Vikings ended up along the St. Lawrence or
around the Lakes (as some say happened *here*), they would probably be
destroyed by the Indians or intermarry with, in the end; and I doubt that
they'd be much more than fodder for *there*'s speculationists -- vague
tales of blond Iroquois, Algonquian words that sound remarkably like
Icelandic words, and such.  Perhaps a crude or debased kind of
Christianity is to be found amongst certain tribes? 

In the end, it might be safest to allow that Iceland, Greenland, Norway,
Northern Germany and the Low Countries are most strongly affected by the
Cambriese church.  It remains strongest at home, possibly Norway and the
Low Countries as you say, and Iceland.  It'd probably be safest to allow
no more than a limited expansion into Vinland (perhaps a couple of the
Vinland colonies prosper, rather than falter, as *here*).  With the 15th
century's abandonment of Greenland, Vinland would be all but forgotten,
and some Cambrian explorer will have a nice surprise awaiting him when
he's searching out the Northwest Passage or some such, two hundred years
later. 

Padraic.

> 
> - andrew.
> 
> Andrew Smith, Intheologus 			hobbit@earthlight.co.nz
> 


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