Re: Humorous Brithenig translation project.

[Andrew Smith <hobbit@mail.earthlight.co.nz>]

On Sun, 11 Oct 1998, Padraic Brown wrote:

> > (I don't fear God/I don't fear the Devil/I only fear the Kernowmen/when
> > they speak Brithenig!)
> 
> Hey!!
>
Gotcha! 
> > 
> > While I liked the joke, and I'm intending on putting a version on the
> > homepage, I would be remiss if I didn't point out a few things.
> 
> Feel free to alter what is wrong.
> 
> Indeed.  Got it from St. Martin's, Kepstow Bridge.
Did you know that according to Wordcraft ceapstow is an OE word meaning
marketplace?

> What words in particular?  'ill grew' is the only obvious nonstandard word
> I could see, being Paesan.
> 
rhen is sufficent in standard Brithenig to mark a noun as "not", extra
words are redundant.  In ever/never statements it is replaced with nonc.

the articles lla and llo always cause mutations.

I looked through your neologisms, and considered them against etymology,
cognates and existing words, my conclusions:

"The Romance Languages" gives *presbyter surviving into Welsh as pryfder,
which I suspect is now obsolete because I can't find it in the
dictionaries.  Although the original word I gave you was prestr, I think
I'm going to post it as prefder.

Modern Brithenig /v/ derives from VL /m/, /b/ and only from VL /w/ in very
exceptional circumstances.  I think narfus would be more likely spelled
narws, cf gw, serw.

Brithenig collapsed /-e:r/ with /-er/, although I could accept that seguir
is Paesan, standard has segher.

Sugestiwn, monseniwr and comannfent are acceptable and match up with what
I found.  I found abostol and nonostann among my papers (I should pay more
attention to what I find written down on paper!)

Welsh as "to ask a blessing" for Eng. to say grace; and one version of
Cornish has "to speak of" for to refer to, and uses cosulya, to advise,
for to recommend (which survives in Brithenig as cosilar).

Maria cun lla Ceresa, I guess again as Paesan, standard would say Mair
cun lla Geres.

English is the only Romance cognate that uses "contest" as a nominative,
French, Spanish and Italian all have words based on "concursus", I tend to
favour Brithenig following what continental romance languages do rather
than what English does.  I think it has a more exotic feel to me, and
*here* the Welsh resisted borrowings from English for a long time.

Muinisaf meaning the least I guess is another Paesan influence because
this would mean very small in standard Brithenig in contrast to ill muin,
the least.  The same must go for comodd because the standard language has
si(g), from sicut, surviving to mean "as", although co does mean how.

That's my conclusions.  I hope I didn't jump to too many wrong ones,
Conclusions is a very dull place and hard to get back from (Phantom
Tollbooth fan!)  I would like to see the etymology for ill grew, because
I'm considering adding it to the lexicon.

- andrew.

Andrew Smith, Intheologus 			hobbit@earthlight.co.nz
MAN, despite his artistic pretensions, his sophistication, and his many
accomplishments; still owes his existence to a six-inch layer of top soil
and the fact that it rains - Anon.