Despite these two languages being "easy to learn" I think that only applies to people who speak a European language. As a student learning Chinese right now, I don't think that anyone who speaks solely Chinese would find Esperanto or Interlingua "easier" to learn than Lojban, and in fact might find Lojban easier.
There's really no competition. Euro-clone languages have little or nothing in common with Lojban save the potential use as an international auxiliary language (IAL) which any constructed language (or, in fact, any language) has. You're right, Lojban grammar is a lot closer to that of Chinese than of any Euro language, and I suspect a Chinese-speaker would find Lojban far easier to learn than any of the countless Euro-clones.
I think Lojban is a hell of a lot easier to learn than any natural language and artificial languages that model natural languages like Esperanto and Interlingua.The basic grammar is so straightforward, you just pick a brivla and plug in sumti. Tenses? No need to learn all kinds of variations, three two-letter words are all you need for most cases.Sure, when you get to more complicated things, the grammar becomes a little odd, but there's far less to memorise than natural languages.I think a lot of the reason why people think Lojban is difficult is that getting things perfect is emphasised so much. If something is in the wrong place or if you miss a cmavo, it means the wrong thing. But mistakes like that in other languages often have the same effect. But people tend to plod on anyway there and ignore the errors.Is this a failing of the Lojban community? I personally think that it's great to be corrected and to strive for perfection, but it can give the false impression Lojban is a lot harder than other languages whose communities tolerate laxity more.
I think Lojban is a hell of a lot easier to learn than any natural language and artificial languages that model natural languages like Esperanto and Interlingua.
The basic grammar is so straightforward, you just pick a brivla and plug in sumti. Tenses? No need to learn all kinds of variations, three two-letter words are all you need for most cases.
Sure, when you get to more complicated things, the grammar becomes a little odd, but there's far less to memorise than natural languages.
I think a lot of the reason why people think Lojban is difficult is that getting things perfect is emphasised so much. If something is in the wrong place or if you miss a cmavo, it means the wrong thing. But mistakes like that in other languages often have the same effect. But people tend to plod on anyway there and ignore the errors.
Is this a failing of the Lojban community? I personally think that it's great to be corrected and to strive for perfection, but it can give the false impression Lojban is a lot harder than other languages whose communities tolerate laxity more.
>>118YES. It's commendable to strive for perfection, sure, but often the corrections made reference something beyond my understanding. For example, I'm currently learning Chinese and my Chinese teacher didn't start hounding me about my pronunciation and grammar until the 2nd semester, when she knew I could handle it.
>>118
YES. It's commendable to strive for perfection, sure, but often the corrections made reference something beyond my understanding. For example, I'm currently learning Chinese and my Chinese teacher didn't start hounding me about my pronunciation and grammar until the 2nd semester, when she knew I could handle it.
I don't mind being corrected when I'm talked to respectfully.
>>93The question-- which I think strikes at the soul of what Lojban is-- is WHAT Lojban is easily used FOR. When you are talking about a language which is in a traditional semantic mode, such as the euroclones, you know what you are getting: Usual European words for usual European concepts. The debates are very rarely about semantics at all, because it's taken for granted that you are going to have a bunch of "words for" things, in the usual European way, and that they will be words for the usual European things to have words for. Lojban is unquestionably less easy, efficient, and perhaps even less clear, at expressing that same range of concepts and perspectives, simply because Lojban is actually a different set of words, a fundamentally different outlook. Lojban is also fantastically clear and precise at expressing things which are lobykai. So I believe it is a very complicated value judgement: WHAT would you like to be able to express clearly, what would you like to be able to express most easily? I believe that there are circumstances for which Lojban is already the most appropriate language in today's world-- or I wouldn't be speaking it. And I believe that by deepening and clarifying Lojban, we can expand the range of tasks in which it excels.
>>93
The question-- which I think strikes at the soul of what Lojban is-- is WHAT Lojban is easily used FOR. When you are talking about a language which is in a traditional semantic mode, such as the euroclones, you know what you are getting: Usual European words for usual European concepts. The debates are very rarely about semantics at all, because it's taken for granted that you are going to have a bunch of "words for" things, in the usual European way, and that they will be words for the usual European things to have words for.
Lojban is unquestionably less easy, efficient, and perhaps even less clear, at expressing that same range of concepts and perspectives, simply because Lojban is actually a different set of words, a fundamentally different outlook. Lojban is also fantastically clear and precise at expressing things which are lobykai. So I believe it is a very complicated value judgement: WHAT would you like to be able to express clearly, what would you like to be able to express most easily? I believe that there are circumstances for which Lojban is already the most appropriate language in today's world-- or I wouldn't be speaking it. And I believe that by deepening and clarifying Lojban, we can expand the range of tasks in which it excels.
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