[conculture] Re: Greetings!

[Padraic Brown <pbrown@polaris.umuc.edu>]

From: Padraic Brown <pbrown@polaris.umuc.edu>

On Mon, 29 Mar 1999, Mathew Willoughby wrote:

> From: Mathew Willoughby <sidonian@ggms.com>
> 
> 
> I know it's a "no-no" but I've cross-posted this message because
> I'm responding to a post in conculture but many of my questions
> are conlang related.

Well, I suppose a certain number of "borderline" posts must be expected
with two closely related lists composed of essentially the same
membership.

> 
> Andrew Smith wrote:
> 
> > Brithenig started off as an experiment to create a neo-romance language
> > that underwent the same sound changes as Welsh.  Why? because people have
> > speculated on such a creature, and someone had to do.  It was too good to
> > resist.  From there Brithenig developed its own history and statehood.  It
> > is spoken by the Chomro of western Britain.  The Kingdom of Cambria (Rheon
> > Kemr) stretches from Cornwall to north of Wales, taking a bigger bite out
> > of England than the Celtic languages do *here*.  It has its own dynasty of
> > kings and since the early 19th century has been united in a formal
> > federation with the kingdoms of England and Scotland.

A point of history which undoubtedly sticks in the craws of many.

> >
> > It was the Chomro, rather than the English, who conquered and ruled
> > Ireland.  They also planted colonies on the Atlantic coast of North
> > America.  These united with English, Scottish and mixed colonies to form
> > the Solemn League, an independant union under the sovereignty of the
> > Crowns.
> >
> > The dialect of Castreleon, the Kemrese capital, appears to be the widest
> > known.  Dialectal variation has only been hinted at so far.  The Kernu
> > languages of Dunein seem to be the most divergent and are being studied by
> > Padraig Brown.

There is a little known about the dialect of Ill Paes (the easternmost
province, I believe), and which is also widely spoken in eastern Dunein,
as well as Kernu.  There are orthographic differences (il ov vs. ill of); 
there are fewer instances of mutation (eo cant, ti cants vs. eo gant, ty
gant);  it has some extra morphology (-s for 2nd s. of verbs; -s/-es show
up on a number of pl. nouns: il apostol, l'apostoles) and there are
vocabulary differences as well (I can't recall an example off hand).
Otherwise, it's quite similar to Castreleonese in grammar and morphology.

> >
> > There appears to be some technological differences *there*.  Zeppilins
> > dominate the air services.  (Lighter than air travel!  Never happen here!)

Also, I don't think the technology is quite as pervasive as *here*.

> > The currency is still imperial rather than decimal.  I don't think they
> > have left their planet yet.  An armada of that scale would be rather hard
> > not to notice.
> >
> > - andrew.
> >
> 
> Andrew,
> 

> I've been to your Brithenig webpage a couple of times now.  Very cool! 
> Is the kingdom on the eastern part of Britain called England or is that
> just a translation into English of what it is called in the Brithenig
> timeline?  Do they speak the same English as we do has it evolved
> completely differently?  I would imagine that they might have more
> celtic loanwords than our English does.  Also, with greater resistance
> to the Viking invasions, I imagine that it would have far less of a
> Norwegian/Danish influence than our English does.

Andrew can best answer this, but I haven't heard anything of what kind of
English is spoken *there*.  One could reasonably expect, with the Capital
at London, and having undergone Norman influence, that "standard English" 
would be similar to what we have *here*.  I think you're right in that
there are more loans into English, but any "Celtic" loans would be
filtered through Brithenig, as British Celtic ceased to be a language more
or less by the seventh century, perhaps a little later in some backwoods
areas; and especially since the two languages are on "equal footing". 
I.e., they both have an army. ;)  I can't speak to Norse influences in
particular, but the Vikings did pay the Islands a courtesy call or three
over the centuries. 

> I've been learning a little about the Gaelic languages recently.  Is the
> Brithening (and Welsh) rh the same as the Irish "slender" r?  What about
> ll?  Is it analogous to "slender" l? 

It's certainly the best way to tell a Native Standard Brithenig speaker
from a speaker of one of the non-ll dialects.  The other is Mutations. 
The problem here is that all the dialects have them, but are used slightly
differently; and I can speak from personal experience in saying that I
don't think I've gotten a B mutation right yet. ;^) 

Padraic.

> 
> Curious,
> 
> smw
> 
> http://ggms.com/willoughby (now re-formatted for viewing at *all* screen
> resolutions.)
> 
> 
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