Re: Genitive relationships (WAS: Construct States)

[Padraic Brown <pbrown@POLARIS.UMUC.EDU>]

On Tue, 2 Mar 1999, FFlores wrote:

>
> As you've seen, all Semitic langs do. But reading
> those posts I realized a similar thing (totally
> unrelated) happens in Welsh! I don't know too much
> about it, but I understand two noun phrases in
> juxtaposition "A B" form a genitive construction
> "A of B". Is this a general phenomenon?

As far as I know, it's the normal way for Welsh to do it.

>
> Also, how do you indicate genitival relationships
> in your conlangs? Myself, I tend to use the good ol'
> genitive case, but in Ciravesu I simply resorted
> to juxtaposition (head-final).
>

Coincidentally, it's also one of the ways Brithenig does it.  It has the
standard Romance 'X de Y' form: la gas di'll of (the man's house); but
also cas ill of, which I think answers to the Welsh form.

In Brithenig you can't say "la cas ill of" for this kind of construction;
but that is precisely how one may formulate the genitive in Kernu: "la
domu le omen".  This is still "the man's house", but they use a different
word for house, plus there's a case distinction.  The second kind of
possession in Kernu uses the rather complicated construction with the
preposition 'do', which means to or at: "dol omen la domu" litterally
means 'at the man the house'; and is used with 'aver' (there is) and
certain other constructions.  So "the man owns a house" is "dol omen ay yn
domu" (at the man there is a house).  There is a third kind of possession,
making use of the possessive adjectives: 'do li la domu' (at him the
house)  becomes 'la seva domu' (the his house).  I know there are rules
governing the use of each kind, when and how they may be applied; but
can't at the moment recall them.

Padraic.

>
> --Pablo Flores
>
> * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * *
>  Oh Lord, grant that we may always
>  be right, for thou knowest we will
>  never change our mind.
>                          Scotch prayer
>

I'll have to remember this one!